Buckle up for a no-holds-barred dive into the wild world of drones with hosts Bobby Ouyang (SkyeBrowse) and Luis Figueiredo, joined by search-and-rescue ace Kyle Nordfors (Weber County SAR), within the newest episode of their fifth season. This trio doesn’t mince phrases as they unpack the scorching drama rocking the drone business—from Skydio’s sock-wielding bravado, the notorious Spydio Mailer and predatory lobbying to Brinc‘s smoke-and-mirrors demos with hidden repeaters. They’re spilling the tea on company hypocrisy, calling out the “anti-American” antics of U.S.-based corporations, and exposing how public security’s being offered down the river for revenue. When you thought drones have been nearly flying, assume once more—this can be a fiery showdown you gained’t need to miss.
Drones After Darkish with Kyle Nordfors
Bobby Ouyang: So, season 5, we’re again once more. We’re again as a result of Louis was texting me about all of the drama, and he couldn’t simply preserve it to ourselves. It must be shared—all of the drama that’s happening. We even have our particular visitor, Kyle Nordfors is right here, buddy of the pod. He’s been going to fairly a number of conferences and in addition becoming a member of in on the drama nonetheless.
Luis Figueiredo: I do know. The place will we begin? Yeah, Greg, Kyle, you bought something new?
Kyle Nordfors: Um, properly, yeah, I assume we may begin proper off with the Drone Responders Convention that simply occurred during the last couple days. I obtained dwelling this morning, in reality, so it ended yesterday. I needed to get up at 3:00 AM East Coast time to drive the three hours as much as Washington, DC, to catch the 7:30 AM flight to Salt Lake Metropolis—which might’ve been 1:00 AM our day trip right here, Mountain Time. So it’s been an extended day for me, however all in all, the Drone Responders Convention was truly excellent.
I perceive a number of the unique audio system needed to again out, so DJ Smith needed to pull one for the workforce. He was on a number of extra panels than he initially deliberate, and he simply completely crushed it. That man is a wealth of knowledge and a tremendous advocate for the business—significantly for the SLTT group. He’s on the market advocating as exhausting as he can and doing an absolute nice job.
In fact, the large subject was DFR [Drone First Responder], and all of the completely different distributors had a DFR program or platform of some kind—some extra practical and operational than others. You had all the principle gamers there. One participant particularly confirmed up with their DFR product within the mattress of a truck, which they declare it’s designed to do. It had a ratchet strap across the enclosure as they drove round. Wow, sort of kills the aim of the entire DFR—or safety strap, I don’t know. It was hilarious once we noticed that image. However by and enormous, it was a easy, good convention the place lots of people exchanged loads of concepts.
The dinners have been nice. I used to be in a position to go to dinner with the Flock workforce and hang around with Brett Conda, John McBride, Fritz Reber, they usually had Elk Grove on the market with them—their first large company that’s working their system. Big company.
[00:04:00]
Bobby Ouyang: Nate Lang. Shout out to Lieutenant Lang.
Kyle Nordfors: Yeah, yep. It was only a good time. The night after-party, the social occasion, was nice. So there actually wasn’t any drama, any actual state of affairs at this specific convention. Drones didn’t crash like at earlier conferences.
Luis Figueiredo: Yeah.
Kyle Nordfors: We’ll get to that. But it surely was good, actual good. I had an actual good dialog with a gentleman named Dave—I don’t need to give away an excessive amount of ‘trigger I feel we have to preserve it on the down low with the challenge I’ll inform you guys about later. We obtained a extremely good recreation plan to attempt—it’s gonna be a disruptive factor in Search and Rescue, a minimum of, the issues we have been speaking about. Fairly thrilling stuff, all in all. So far as new gear, probably not. It was simply extra DFR speak and progressing with DFR.
The presentation I had, I talked about heavy-lift drones and the right way to implement them in public security. I had a bunch of movies of us utilizing the FlyCart 30. We’ve been flying that round with search and rescue, largely delivering litter medical kits and the like—pulling, let’s say, a mountain biker who crashes, has a femur protruding of their pores and skin, and the bike is simply totaled. As a substitute of leaving that on the mountain or having considered one of our floor crews attempt to carry it off, we will raise that mountain bike off with the FlyCart, which simply saves time and power and ensures our floor groups can get dwelling faster and safer. Simply all good things, actually, from the Drone Responders Convention.
[00:06:00]
Luis Figueiredo: Are you excited in regards to the rumored Matrice 400 popping out?
Kyle Nordfors: Sure, I don’t know a lot about it, however the 350 was a very good incremental step from the 300, and the H30T is such a powerhouse of a payload. I don’t know if with the 400 they’re gonna have an up to date model of the H30T, however fairly merely, nothing compares to it within the business. The H30T is totally superb so far as the whole package deal goes, and for the value level. Do you’ve gotten any extra particulars on it? Have you ever heard, have you ever seen?
Luis Figueiredo: The one factor I’ve heard to date is it’s gonna have the ability to carry a heavier payload. I feel the max weight is 20 kilos or over 20 kilos, one thing like that. So it’s gonna be a very good medium between what the M350 carries now and what the FlyCart carries. It’s gonna have a smaller footprint than the FlyCart however barely larger than the M350—in all probability someplace in between. I’m positive it’s not gonna be crappy, proper? Like every other DJI product. We’re gonna get it, and we’re gonna be like, yep, it’s precisely what we anticipated.
Kyle Nordfors: And it’s gonna work.
Luis Figueiredo: Yep. However again to the convention—is there a motive why a few of these folks pulled out, just like the audio system?
Kyle Nordfors: No, I simply overheard a dialog with DJ, and he was telling us that’s why he was getting up on stage a lot. I do know of 1 specific gentleman who needed to again out—his spouse simply had a baby, so he wanted to remain behind together with his spouse.
Luis Figueiredo: Legitimate excuse.
Kyle Nordfors: Yeah. It was gadgets like that—not any drama or the rest, simply household points. So DJ took one for the workforce and obtained up on stage much more than he was planning on. He did nice.
[00:08:00]
Bobby Ouyang: Kyle’s proper—DJ’s a powerhouse. In order that was a drama-less convention, Louis. Do you wanna say one thing?
Luis Figueiredo: No, I used to be gonna say, Kyle talked about Flock—they’d an enormous announcement at the moment, proper? They raised, what, like 200-something million? I noticed they have been all posting about it. I assume they’re gonna construct their very own facility or one thing—an R&D facility?
Kyle Nordfors: In Georgia, proper? Yeah, they’ve a facility. I used to be speaking to Raul a pair weeks in the past, and that man has large plans and massive targets for Flock within the route they’re going. They’re even constructing their very own drones. My understanding is that they’re not fairly prepared for prime time but, however possibly I shouldn’t have stated that—I don’t know. They’ve actually large plans, they usually have a powerhouse workforce too. Their lineup at that firm is—Raul is admittedly stacking the deck in his favor with who he has employed proper now. It’s gonna be enjoyable to see how far they go, and honestly, I’m cheering for them.
Bobby Ouyang: Yeah, Flock has a powerhouse workforce as a complete. I used to be watching a number of interviews with Garrett Langley, and he was speaking about how each single time he obtained on a aircraft, you possibly can virtually assure $40,000 in annual recurring income simply from assembly with businesses. He stated that based mostly on what number of cameras they set up and what number of crimes they clear up, they’ll predict how way more gross sales they’d be getting because of it. The best way your entire group runs is admittedly fascinating as a result of he has his Chief Income Officer whose complete job is simply to rent salespeople—that’s it. Constructing this unbelievable gross sales group, a whole bunch and a whole bunch of individuals in gross sales getting employed each single 12 months. It’s very well-run, they usually rent some actually incredible folks.
[00:10:00]
Luis Figueiredo: Hear, they’ve a very good product, proper? Particularly in the case of the LPR [License Plate Recognition] system. As a person of each Flock and Motorola’s Vigilant, I feel Motorola’s executed what they do with loads of corporations they purchase—don’t make investments an excessive amount of into them, and the expertise stays the identical. Flock got here in and recognized areas the place Motorola wasn’t doing properly. Their cameras can go up in every single place—I used to be simply at Dwelling Depot final week in my city, and there are Flock cameras everywhere in the parking zone. So I assume now they’re doing personal too, not simply public security businesses and cities—they’re doing industrial accounts. Their interface might be a bit of higher, however it’s an easy-to-use product. They simplified the set up of cameras—the photo voltaic panel ones may be put up wherever. The one benefit Motorola has in the meanwhile is that they have the contract with repo corporations and people corporations driving round on a regular basis, getting license plate hits, whereas Flock is extra stationary cameras. But it surely’s an ideal product—I’m not gonna sit right here and speak crap about Flock due to Axiom. It’s a very good product.
Bobby Ouyang: Effectively, you’re speaking about DFR with the repo corporations. One actually fascinating drone-in-the-box answer I used to be speaking about with the CEO of a parking ticket firm—as an alternative of utilizing mounted stationary cameras to detect if a automobile’s parked in a spot too lengthy, like at a baseball area the place you possibly can solely park quarter-hour or one thing—they’re placing drones in bins and doing patrols of the world. It’ll detect whether or not a automobile’s there, and if one other drone comes over quarter-hour later and it’s nonetheless there, it’ll take an image of the license plate.
[00:12:00]
Kyle Nordfors: That’s an ideal system. Earlier than I say one thing, I wanna say hello to Tom. I simply noticed that he stayed up late—he’s a hero. Hey, Tom, I’m truly excited to hang around with you in Manchester. We’ve obtained the UK Robotics Convention arising subsequent month in Manchester, England, and Tom’s gonna be coming over to assist train all of us low people the right way to fly FPV for actual. I’m excited to get to know Tom a bit of higher and be taught from the grasp.
However I feel a method Flock has a bonus over different corporations is as a result of they promote to personal corporations like Lowe’s, Dwelling Depot, or Costco with their cameras. You possibly can envision that being at building websites with their DFR program—technically, that’d be a drone-in-the-box system, however they may simply convert that into one thing a industrial firm would need. Substations, railroads, a complete bunch of various packages the place it’s an even bigger system that Axon in all probability wouldn’t do.
Bobby Ouyang: Yeah, it’s additionally their fascinating go-to-market technique. Sometimes, as a startup, suppose we’re fixing to hit $10 million in annual recurring income this 12 months—midway via the 12 months, we’d speak to some buyers, elevate $20 million to scale up and develop even quicker. What Flock did within the early days is that they’d solely elevate a pair million {dollars}, despite the fact that they have been doing much more in income, simply to check one thing out for 2 or three months. They knew they’d a very good product, they knew they have been gonna dominate the market—it was only a matter of how and what’s the quickest approach to do it. They tried a number of go-to-market motions, a number of product motions, and loads of them failed. However as a result of they didn’t elevate that vast amount of cash, their failures didn’t damage as a lot—it didn’t shut down the corporate as a complete. It’s actually fascinating.
[00:14:00]
Luis Figueiredo: Yeah, however sufficient of Flock—Rahul’s residing his Miami Vice days proper now. I heard he obtained a white Ferrari and he’s sporting Hawaiian shirts—I don’t know. Let him take pleasure in it.
Kyle Nordfors: Rahul, it is advisable ship us that image.
Luis Figueiredo: I’m positive AI can generate it if he doesn’t wanna share. So that you didn’t get any Air Drive Ones or any sort of new socks on the convention?
Kyle Nordfors: No, however I used to be shut, and I feel I nonetheless would possibly get a few of these socks. Skydio does have some workers who’re nonetheless moral and good folks and haven’t offered their soul but. I used to be in a position to spend time with considered one of their workers—I don’t wanna rat this particular person out. I requested these socks as a result of I don’t need that individual worker to get lectured for speaking to me or letting me purchase them a drink.
Luis Figueiredo: Or they’ll block you.
Kyle Nordfors: That’s the Skydio approach, proper? They block you as quickly as you’ve gotten any mental dialog or debate their premise—they cower and block you as a result of each single considered one of their stances may be countered. It’s infantile. However hopefully I’ll get a pair of these socks—it’ll be as comical as them posting it from their precise Skydio account. Their Chief Advertising Officer attacked me personally, by no means even met me, and tried to come back after me. I assumed it was stunning.
[00:16:00]
Luis Figueiredo: My days of getting socks from Skydio are executed—I don’t assume they’re gonna give me socks once more after what I put their final socks via. The sneakers are fairly cool, although. What’s the story about—
Kyle Nordfors: They needed to take part and have extra gadgets made in China. They needed extra than simply their batteries made in China.
Luis Figueiredo: The best way I perceived the message on these socks initially—I began, possibly I learn an excessive amount of into it, however I don’t assume I did—was “Don’t fuck with Skydio.” They’re not a client firm anymore—you possibly can’t stroll right into a Greatest Purchase and purchase a Skydio drone. They’re making drones for public security. I took that message personally, like, is {that a} shot at public security, at legislation enforcement? Are they telling us, “Don’t fuck with us as a result of it doesn’t matter what you do, we’re nonetheless gonna shovel a shitty product down your throat”? That’s how I noticed it. DroneXL’s Hyatt made a extremely good article explaining his ideas behind it. I can see now that possibly that would’ve been the message, however I nonetheless took it extraordinarily personally. I feel it’s a direct shot at everyone—like us—who converse up towards them. We do it on a regular basis, name them out, to the purpose the place they block us. Their workers nonetheless troll my posts, however Adam Bry and some others have blocked me. I noticed that and thought, this can be a direct shot at public security.
[00:18:00]
Bobby Ouyang: Proper now, they’re in all probability not gonna exit of enterprise. I feel all of the laws labored out for them. In earlier seasons, we talked about how Skydio wasn’t gonna be round anymore, however it looks as if they discovered their product movement—ban DJI and scale it out.
Luis Figueiredo: I feel they’re nonetheless round now as a result of after they misplaced that $100 million Military contract, it appeared like virtually concurrently Axon was like, “Hey, Skydio, right here’s a lifeline.” That’s what it looks as if—it occurred on the identical time. If it wasn’t for Rick Smith—the man who needed to place a taser on a drone, and I feel they did a sick 360 on one too—I don’t know if Skydio could be round for an additional 12 months or two. Their burn charge’s approach too excessive, particularly after they’re spending cash on fancy socks and sneakers. By the best way, we have now to do one thing in regards to the “Skydio” title—these first three letters, “Sky.” Can we rename it “Eyebrows” or one thing? Do away with the “Sky.”
Bobby Ouyang: That feels like an previous porno web site. Oh my gosh.
Kyle Nordfors: It’s actually too unhealthy we have now a US-based firm—I shudder even calling them an American firm as a result of they don’t act like Individuals—that sources Chinese language components for his or her drones. Everyone’s conscious of that. It’s the misperception: “Oh, it’s an American-made drone,” however loads of the elements are Chinese language—even the batteries. They’re delivery out X10s with one battery as a result of they couldn’t supply any extra.
[00:20:00]
Luis Figueiredo: Sorry, I didn’t imply to chop you off.
Kyle Nordfors: No, you’re high quality—it’s a legitimate level. What’s unhappy to me is that this was in all probability our greatest alternative to have a strong product, they usually come out claiming they’re right here to assist public security, however all their actions fall quick. Reasonably than innovating to make a very good product, they’re spending cash on silly gadgets, lobbying efforts, and reducing our legs out from beneath us as an alternative of being there for public security. If they only took the upper street and stated, “Hey, we’re a US-based firm attempting to do the correct factor—please give our product a attempt, we’re right here to help you, we’ll do no matter we will to be sure to’re profitable,” and ignored DJI or Teal, simply did their factor and offered the very best product with open arms and a strong coronary heart, legislation enforcement and public security throughout the nation would help them 100%. They’d say, “Completely, we’ll show you how to develop your product, we’ll purchase your merchandise when we have now the cash, we’ll speak to our metropolis council or county commissioners to justify paying a bit of further to help the American firm.” However as an alternative, our cries and wishes are falling on the deaf ears of their govt workers, and all they appear to care about, from our perspective, is earning money. The people who find themselves going to endure are these we’re attempting to serve.
I’ll nonetheless stand by this—it’s factual: when I’ve an X10 side-by-side with my Matrice 30, Dragonfish, or any Teal merchandise, the Skydio product falls quick. It doesn’t make it up the mountain, can’t get there.
[00:22:00]
Luis Figueiredo: It’s not even a good comparability. Put it up towards an M30? You’d have to match it to a Mavic 2 Enterprise or a Mavic 3—that’d be extra truthful. I don’t assume the X10, even years from now, will evaluate to what an M30 is now.
Kyle Nordfors: Oh yeah, let’s not even attempt to evaluate it to the Matrice 4—the Matrice 4TD with its IP score knocks it out of the water. Have a look at an organization like ACSL from Japan—they’re trucking alongside, doing their greatest, reaching out, bringing public security and different professionals over to Tokyo, saying, “Inform us what you need, what you want, be brutally trustworthy.” Their engineers are proper there taking notes, configuring, so the following drone they arrive out with is precisely what we’d like and need. They’re attempting to fulfill our demand, quite than a number of US-based corporations attempting to inform us what we’d like—and telling the warfighter what they want. I’ve educated with SF teams, NSW teams, been with them in coaching eventualities, and what the 2 largest US-based corporations have just isn’t what the warfighters need or want. No matter what the generals or large guys negotiating contracts say, the women and men on the frontline don’t need that product as a result of it’s ineffective to them. It’s not dependable—we all know it’s not dependable, we all know they crash. NIST has all the info evaluating it with precise numbers and proof that it’s an inferior product. It’s simply too unhealthy.
[00:24:00]
Luis Figueiredo: Even on the federal stage, federal businesses can solely purchase Skydio, Parrot, Teal—I don’t hear a lot about BRINC. These are the three manufacturers they’ll purchase. Their academies have drone coaching packages—they ship brokers to fly drones out of their workplaces. Have you learnt what they’re coaching these guys on? DJI Minis, Mavics, Mavic 2s, Mavic 3s. They’re coaching federal brokers on DJI merchandise, then sending them again to their area workplaces to make use of Skydio, Teal, Parrot—some are getting arrange with Skydio X10s. However the best way they’re organising these accounts, the sphere workplaces can’t log in. It’s loopy—they promote the gear, then it’s like, “Hey, you’re by yourself, determine it out.” Not solely are they shoving gear down their throats, there’s no help—they’re left on their very own.
Bobby Ouyang: It’s extremely predatory upsells too. Considered one of our earlier prospects from 2021 was pressured to purchase Skydio—they obtained offered Skydio 3D Scan, which simply permits the digicam to level upwards, fly, and take photos. It doesn’t make the 3D scan itself. They have been offered that as a result of their chiefs noticed the presentation, have been wowed by it—no reside demo, only a slide deck. Their chiefs didn’t know they have been already in a multi-year contract with us, in order that they threw away virtually $5,000 within the first 12 months doing nothing, and Skydio did nothing to assist them.
[00:26:00]
Luis Figueiredo: We all know why they don’t do reside demos—their success charge is extraordinarily low. However even with their gross sales strategy now, what’s scary is that they have Axon help—enormous in public security. For departments placing up resistance, they’re like, “We’ll offer you free gear, commerce up in your new Axon contract while you renew.” Some departments are being bypassed—they go to metropolis officers: “We will prevent cash should you commerce up your gear.” By the point the division hears about it, metropolis council or the mayor is telling them, “That is what it’s a must to do.” At that time, it’s both no drone program or go along with what they’re advised. It’s scary—they’ve obtained Axon’s muscle now. By the best way, Kyle, the following particular person I’m attempting to get on my block listing is Axon’s CEO, Rick Smith. In some unspecified time in the future, he’s gonna be fed up with me tagging him on the whole lot.
Kyle Nordfors: It’ll be fascinating to see if he’s fed up with you tagging him or with buyer complaints as a result of the plane merely isn’t working. Once we get into these conversations on-line—Fb, LinkedIn, different boards—folks with a unique perspective strawman my argument to slap it down simpler. The cognitive dissonance they function in is fascinating. On the finish of the day, I sincerely don’t care in regards to the title on the plane I’m flying—Boeing, Airbus, Skydio, BRINC, DJI, Teal—I don’t care. What I care about is the power to save lots of lives. As a search and rescue volunteer, I present up when the decision comes and need to deploy the plane to save lots of lives. That’s it.
[00:30:00]
When folks take backhanded, backdoor offers, lobbying to pressure me into utilizing an inferior product that impedes my skill to save lots of lives, it turns into private. Some persons are nonetheless alive due to this expertise, due to the drones I used—they’ve grow to be household associates. Once you’re lobbying for one thing that takes away first responders’ skill to save lots of lives, that’s unethical, immoral. When you’re putting gross sales and return on funding in your buyers over that, you must go to jail—it’s legal, you’ll have blood in your arms. In states like Florida and Tennessee, the place Skydio’s lobbying efforts have been profitable, I want we may doc what number of lives have been positioned at risk due to that. It’s unimaginable to quantify, however I want we may. It’s so extremely irritating—lives are on the road. That’s the one foundation for my argument: I need to save lives, and the present merchandise from American producers—I can’t name them American as a result of their actions are anti-American—don’t try this.
Luis Figueiredo: I agree. The identical folks troll my posts on a regular basis—one man who seems like he’s sporting transition lenses all the time says, “Effectively, DJI lobbies too.” I’m like, dude, one is lobbying to eliminate a competitor, the opposite’s lobbying to remain in enterprise—they’re not lobbying to eliminate Skydio, simply to promote their gear. Folks swear I receives a commission by DJI—I feel you’ve been accused of that too, proper? Being on the take or one thing. It’s not like that. I may complain about DJI—tons of stuff I don’t agree with. It may be a cultural factor or no matter. They provide us drones just like the M200 and up with hot-swap batteries—Bobby, don’t fear, I’m not going the place you assume with Autel. The 200 sequence, 300, 350, M30—they obtained us used to hot-swapping, then with the Matrice 4TD, they took that characteristic away. Their response is, “You possibly can energy cycle and put a brand new battery in in 20 or 25 seconds.” I’m like, yeah, however I don’t need to try this—I need to pop the battery out, drone stays on, and it’s up in 5 seconds. I’ve gotten used to that. Sizzling-swapping’s the very best characteristic ever for a drone—while you’re looking or on an op, you need to land and have it again up in 5 seconds.
[00:34:00]
However considered one of my favourite DJI tales is how they empowered BRINC’s existence. Years in the past, when the Mavic Mini got here out, I advised DJI engineers, “Why don’t you make an enterprise Mini? Everyone’s asking for it.” If Tom’s nonetheless awake watching this, what he’s doing now’s what DJI ought to’ve executed years in the past. Think about BRINC attempting to lift cash for his or her Lemur drone, and buyers ask, “Is there any competitor doing this?” BRINC says no, as a result of there wasn’t—they’d the primary inside drone, the Lemur. If DJI had made an enterprise Mini with a small thermal sensor, lights, one thing like that, BRINC wouldn’t be as highly effective now—they wouldn’t preserve elevating cash as a result of DJI would’ve given public security what they wanted. I’ve loads of complaints about DJI—each probability I get, I give them shit, similar to everybody else. They’re too large an organization, too many layers—they put out a very good product and assume, “That is what public security wants,” however they don’t hear our opinions a lot as a result of they’re disconnected from boots on the bottom.
Bobby Ouyang: What’d you name them, Louis? Chinese language 25-year-olds?
Luis Figueiredo: Dude, I feel the problem with DJI is their common worker age is mid-20s. They are often nice engineers, however—
Bobby Ouyang: Wait, Louis, I was a Chinese language 25-year-old. I feel we met once I was a Chinese language 25-year-old, proper?
Luis Figueiredo: To not point out NASA—keep in mind how unhealthy that was?
Kyle Nordfors: NASA within the ‘60s, launching rockets—all children 25 to twenty-eight years previous.
Luis Figueiredo: Don’t get me improper—I’m not saying—now I’m gonna piss off a bunch of 25-year-olds. What I’m attempting to say is that they don’t have the expertise. They’re disconnected from boots on the bottom. Kyle, do you assume a 25-year-old engineer in China constructing DJI drones is aware of what you want for search and rescue?
[00:38:00]
Kyle Nordfors: No, however I don’t assume they’re those making the selections both. They ship folks over right here—Freda comes over, she’s superb, she listens to us. We discuss how large DJI is, however they’re not as large as we expect—so far as—
Luis Figueiredo: You will have one man making all the selections.
Kyle Nordfors: Yeah, it’s sort of a pyramid—the whole lot goes to the highest, the highest makes the choice. Vic simply logged in, and we’d be remiss—we’re centered on public security and the way horrible this lobbying is for public security, however what about him? The a whole bunch of 1000’s of small companies on the market—photographers, roof inspectors, actual property photographers, agriculture pilots—it’d be catastrophic not solely to the drone business however to our economic system at massive. Think about if farmers can’t do pinpoint accuracy drone use with sprays—herbicides, pesticides—they use multispectral drones first, then spray drones. If they’ll’t try this, meals costs will improve considerably. All this lobbying is shortsighted, poorly thought out, solely there to generate income for sure buyers in US-based drone corporations—each different argument falls quick or is pointless.
[00:40:00]
Luis Figueiredo: One other factor that pisses me off—Florida’s a misplaced trigger—however what bothers me is once I see feedback and photos of fellows like, “Received my Skydio drone, can’t wait to fly,” and I see the place they’re positioned. We’re our personal largest enemy due to silly choices. When you’re in a state like Florida or components of Tennessee—or the place laws’s being proposed—and there’s no legislation saying it’s a must to purchase non-Chinese language drones, why the hell are you supporting corporations like Skydio which can be lobbying? All that does is damage everyone else. Your cool image holding that Skydio drone—“I obtained it without spending a dime on my Axon renewal”—you’re hurting each different cop, firefighter relying on the drones they use. You in all probability haven’t any data in regards to the expertise—should you did, you’d say, “No, I’m not shopping for this.” We will blame the fearmongering—Skydio’s second a part of their marketing campaign. I get calls on a regular basis from departments in my state: “We heard we will’t purchase Chinese language drones.” I’m like, “What? Who advised you that?” “Axon was right here, renewing our contract—they stated fairly quickly all our DJI drones are gonna get grounded, we’d like American-made drones.” I’m like, “That’s bullshit, don’t fall for that.” I really feel like I’m doing extra harm management weekly with calls like that. These guys ought to know higher—we’re not doing a very good job educating.
Kyle Nordfors: There’s a further half—sure former lieutenants and captains retired from public security jobs now work for these US-based corporations. They’ve offered their souls, promoting out legislation enforcement and public security throughout the nation. A few of these guys posting are lobbying Skydio for his or her post-retirement job—positioning themselves as fanboys. To get a job at Skydio, it’s a must to drink the Kool-Support, put on the socks, act like an toddler—you possibly can’t query the narrative.
[00:44:00]
Luis Figueiredo: To me, these dudes have zero credibility—I don’t care who you’re employed for now or that you simply offered your soul. You bought your division to purchase Skydio in states with no ban, then retired and began working for them—some have moved to different corporations. Good dudes, besides one who confronted me on the Police Chiefs Convention a number of months in the past. No credibility—you possibly can discuss drones, say no matter, be on panels—to me, you’re a misplaced trigger. You’re doing it to folks in your individual career. It’s like telling cops, “You possibly can’t purchase Glocks or SIGs anymore, it’s a must to purchase Hello-Level”—some crappy gun producer—then going to work for them, pimping that shitty gun to your colleagues. That claims one thing about an individual’s character.
Bobby Ouyang: Let’s take a look at the ramifications of the DJI ban in sure states. Florida’s banned DJI for a pair years now—within the early days, we heard of sheriff’s workplaces nonetheless flying DJI drones as a result of sheriffs there are like kings of the county. However final week, I used to be listening to a webinar or podcast within the morning, they usually have been speaking about how a few of these sheriff’s workplaces are actually pressured to modify as a result of the state’s cracking down. They’re not gonna win towards their rivals with the best way issues are going.
Luis Figueiredo: I feel they’re so cocky proper now that shit like this—the mailer, the socks—they assume they’re untouchable. Is the corporate being poorly run? I don’t get it. They’re losing an excessive amount of cash on non-drone innovation, and it looks as if no person cares about it.
[00:53:00]
Kyle Nordfors: They’ve pivoted how they’re promoting and promoting their gear. Initially, they tried advertising to us—operators, program managers—and we shortly realized how terrible it’s, the way it compares. If we had the X10 seven years in the past, we’d have cherished it. However in comparison with present expertise, it’s simply not that superior. In order that they’ve pivoted away from us, teaming up with Axon, going after chiefs, metropolis council members, county commissioners, police chiefs, saying, “You have already got an Axon price range—relying in your company, a number of million {dollars}—what’s a further $200,000 to your $4 million price range? It’s nothing. Let’s package deal it, toss all of it in.” The chiefs are woefully unaware of how horrible the subscriptions are, the whole lot they should get to make this machine work—if it decides to work, so long as it doesn’t crash.
Bobby Ouyang: I’ll say it once more this season: it’s cheaper for Skydio to spend cash on advertising and lobbying than on engineering to construct a very good product. That’s why they’re doing this—it’s working for them.
Luis Figueiredo: Talking of crashes, wasn’t there an incident in Burnet, Texas, a number of weeks in the past with a Skydio drone?
Bobby Ouyang: I don’t know, man.
Kyle Nordfors: I don’t go to that convention. Their pilots have been flying with out strobes on first and needed to be advised—they weren’t flying with beacons, and somebody requested if they’d a waiver to fly with out them. They stumbled and turned their beacons on, however yeah, one crashed. I wasn’t there, didn’t witness it personally, however there’s video of it occurring. We’re simply stating their hypocrisy. In the event that they weren’t so hypocritical, if they only had a humble coronary heart and have been attempting to do the correct factor—not popping out with silly socks—they get in their very own approach. In the event that they sincerely tried their greatest and requested us for assist, we’d do it. I used to be a beta and alpha tester for Skydio again within the day, labored with some guys nonetheless there. They couldn’t take the exhausting truths—like with the S2 throughout COVID, they’d ship me updates to transform it to an inside drone system. I’d fly it round, give them the exhausting truths, and in the event that they didn’t prefer it, they’d dump you quite than pay attention. They’re taking the simple street.
[00:56:00]
Luis Figueiredo: I felt for a second like throughout the summer time there was a cry for assist. You bought the identical cry, proper? Then it went away. There was an outreach we each acquired—like possibly they’re attempting to get our suggestions on what they’re doing improper, squash a number of issues. Then it disappeared—no follow-up, a minimum of on my finish. What about yours?
Kyle Nordfors: No, it was dropped as quickly as you offered something. They ignored you—particularly if it was, “You want enchancment right here.” All they needed to listen to was, “That is superior, you’re the very best, we love you.” When you stated, “It’s weak in low-light eventualities,” they didn’t need to hear it.
Bobby Ouyang: Skydio doesn’t rent dumb folks—you don’t grow to be a unicorn by hiring dumb folks. They’re doing one thing just like what Flock did—attempt a bunch of experiments, see what works. On this case, lobbying away public security’s skill to make use of DJI or Autel drones is working for them.
Luis Figueiredo: Dude, it’s nonetheless lobbying. It looks as if we’re choosing on Skydio an excessive amount of and never giving BRINC sufficient consideration. It’s loads of smoke and mirrors—I say that on a regular basis. Lobbying, advertising, techniques—however BRINC’s doing the identical shit. It’s worse for them—they’re hiding repeaters inside homes at demos. They create businesses in, “We’re gonna fly the Lemur via the home,” and everybody’s like, “Holy shit, BRINC’s improved, it could actually fly via and never disconnect.” Little do they know they’re hiding repeaters for these demos—that’s the smoke and mirrors. I inform everybody, do your due diligence—in the event that they really need you to purchase it, they need to haven’t any drawback giving it to you to check first. However they’ll by no means try this. Have you ever heard in regards to the repeater story, Kyle?
[00:59:00]
Kyle Nordfors: Sure, I’m very conscious of the state of affairs the place it occurred—I do know the person who hid the repeaters. It comes again to honesty—in the event that they’d simply be trustworthy, shoot us straight, say, “Yeah, our product’s not good, it’d want enchancment, are you able to assist us?” and put it via its paces with us, we as Individuals may develop and be taught collectively. As a substitute, they’re forcing us to make use of an inferior product. What will get me is the fellows pushing this—former legislation enforcement—comprehend it’s inferior. They’re hiding repeaters, crashing drones throughout demos, however nonetheless pushing it as a result of they need to generate income for themselves, everyone else be damned. It’s shockingly unhealthy. However there are American corporations doing the correct factor—couple from the Bay Space. Ascent Aero Methods simply introduced a brand new drone on the TIC convention in Texas—bought by Robinson Helicopter. I’ve flown Robinsons—they’ve a tremendous product, stood the take a look at of time. They’re not lobbying, not doing shenanigans—they’re NDA-compliant, quietly doing their factor. Their costs are greater than public security can afford proper now, however they only got here out with a brand new product I’m excited for. I hope to get my arms on one—incredible quick-deploy, flies in all climate, nice ISR automobile. No zoom or thermal, however nice for accident reconstruction, small, compact, sub-250 grams, coaxial design, flies a very long time. Worth is greater, however anticipated with an American firm. They’re attempting to do the correct factor—these corporations must be promoted and celebrated.
[01:02:00]
Luis Figueiredo: I agree—the largest problem with these corporations is the value level. They’re out of our attain. Hopefully sometime they’ll be extra inexpensive, however in the meanwhile, they’re priced out of our league.
Kyle Nordfors: With participation, it’ll take one or two businesses or personal corporations to buy the primary inventory, show the use case, begin manufacturing in mass to carry the value down. In the event that they confirmed up with a humble coronary heart, the American group would assist. If it’s an inspection-style drone that’s NDA-compliant, a whole bunch of personal corporations would quite use Ascent Aero Methods over Skydio or BRINC for all the explanations you wouldn’t need their merchandise. An trustworthy firm attempting may make their approach simply, particularly with a large like Robinson backing them.
Luis Figueiredo: What’s Uniform Sierra? That’s Duncan’s firm, proper? Flock simply purchased it. Duncan got here to see me a number of years in the past—he had this inside drone, a competitor to the Lemur. A university child—simply graduated or nonetheless in school—with classmates, introduced me this drone. We flew it, and I’m like, “Dude, your drone’s higher than the Lemur, and you probably did this in a dorm room with faculty funding.” I’m glad Flock noticed the potential and purchased them—think about what they’ll come out with now. Going again to BRINC—some division on social media was selling, “We simply signed on with BRINC for DFR, main expertise, we’re gonna be the primary seashore doing it—”
Bobby Ouyang: Lengthy Seaside Police Division.
Luis Figueiredo: May’ve been. I commented, “Congrats on spending cash on a personal one thing”—neglect what I stated. They have been bragging about it. I’m pondering, you purchased a product that’s not even examined but. I don’t assume anybody’s actively utilizing their responder platform—they’ve that nice advertising video with Vegas PD, however persons are gonna have to attend a 12 months for it. Think about the problems when it’s delivered, they usually’re bragging on social media. At what level does somebody say, “Take into consideration what you simply posted—you purchased an untested, progressive DFR system”? There’s nothing progressive about BRINC’s system—or Skydio’s. NYPD has Skydio docks—they’re not even working but. In managed environments, demo flights, positive—however it pisses me off when trolls on my posts give opinions, and also you click on their profile—they’re not in public security, don’t fly drones. We rely on this gear every day—hit the facility button, adrenaline’s going, we’re on a name, we’d like it to go up and carry out. We’re credible—we use it, know what we’re speaking about. They’re like, “Information’s being despatched to China”—Skydio drones haven’t been examined to the extent we use DJI or Autel. When you’re utilizing Skydio and may show me improper, attain out—however you’re not doing a whole bunch of 1000’s of flights like us. Final 12 months, we did over 6,500 DFR flights—no approach an X10 may try this. Half could be down—they don’t carry out in wind, rain. I’ve seen movies of a backyard hose on an X10—it freaks out, can’t deal with regular water strain. NYPD can promote it as a result of they’re the largest company on the earth, however it’s not gonna work for them.
[01:08:00]
Kyle Nordfors: One factor I feel’s gonna occur with Axon—their buyer help strains will likely be flooded: “How do I make this factor work with the Samsung Galaxy pill within the controller? How do I get it to take off?” I’m pledging this now—if Skydio, BRINC, any lobbying firm stopped at the moment and stated, “We gained’t foyer anymore, we simply need to assist public security, will you assist us?”—sure, completely. I’d be first in line to assist, promote, develop their product. My solely factor is we’d like the very best gear to save lots of lives—we will’t be pressured to make use of an inferior product risking American lives. That’s what’s stopping me from being their largest fangirl.
Bobby Ouyang: Kyle, because you’re on the present, will you assist make Skydio higher for search and rescue?
Kyle Nordfors: Completely—I’ve been begging to get our company on it. With the Olympics in 2034 right here in Utah, there’s loads of 3D mapping wanted for downhill slopes, the Utah Olympic Winter Sports activities Park—bobsled, all that. We’re utilizing the FlyCart to ascertain a use case for the Olympics. Skydio could be superior to assist with that. On the newest convention, Vic Moss had an excellent concept—sit down with reps from CSI, fireplace rescue, search and rescue, legislation enforcement, with out naming names or being political—simply, “What’s your present fleet? Chinese language or US-manufactured?” Each time, it was Chinese language-based—randomly pulled folks. We requested, “Why’d you select that fleet? What’d occur should you have been pressured to modify to US choices?” Each one stated their program would fold—no approach to justify spending $200,000 a 12 months on a drone program with US drones. These have been medium-sized fleets—not Texas DPS or Elizabeth Metropolis with a whole bunch of drones—simply 4 or 5. Vic’s gonna put that collectively eloquently to indicate native politicians the harm to public security. He’ll add small enterprise homeowners—inspectors, surveyors, photographers—what would they do? Solely the largest corporations may afford practical US choices.
[01:14:00]
Vic and I had an fascinating dialog with an enormous nationwide rental firm’s UAS head—they’re docks. Draganfly was there with a trailer—think about a Dock 3 on that, rentable to building corporations, surveyors, plug-and-play. He stated, “Yeah, however we’re storm chasers, function with FEMA, so we have now to make use of American.” We stated, “The federal authorities makes use of DJI—I’ve labored with DOD, they use DJI, regardless of what folks say.” That’s the route he’s heading—the cash they’ll drop to accommodate fundamental emergency providers, then hope it really works and doesn’t crash like Skydio did throughout Helene in North Carolina and Texas.
Luis Figueiredo: If I used to be Skydio, I’d be nervous. Promoting X10s standalone—it’d work, would possibly crash, no matter. However pivoting to DFR, promoting to cities as an emergency response device—“Hit a button, it goes to pictures fired, fireplace calls”—you’re promoting this pressure multiplier to businesses with hiring points, small departments, excessive response instances. Now it’s not gonna occur—we all know it’s not. It’s gonna be unhealthy—they’ll’t conceal below Axon’s protection. Somebody’s gotta reply for this. Adam’s below strain—in some unspecified time in the future, they’ll ask him to step down. You’re promoting this concept to cities, and it’s not delivering—not initially, as a result of it’s nightmares.
Kyle Nordfors: All of it comes again to cash—it makes me sick, unhappy.
Luis Figueiredo: You arrange a DFR program—one launch location, $125,000 to $150,000 a 12 months—that’s what businesses are paying. It’s not low-cost. That’s why the shift occurred in DFR. A 12 months and a half in the past, we’d be speaking Motorola Cape, Paladin, DroneSense getting their ft moist—not Skydio, Flock, BRINC. They didn’t exist in DFR conversations. Why’d they shift so fast? Cash. Promote one launch location for $125,000-$150,000 a 12 months with one dock—much less X10s to promote standalone. Get one contract, persuade the following division.
[01:18:00]
Bobby Ouyang: It’s not exhausting convincing departments with huge understaffing—extra price range goes to officers, not docks.
Luis Figueiredo: However you promote them on that concept—they’re shopping for into it, like that division bragging about BRINC’s DFR answer: “We will’t wait to complement patrol capabilities.” Then they’ll get it—“Holy shit, this isn’t working half the time.” Horror tales about Axiom, everybody’s had issues—it’s tech, glitches occur—however the extent of points from Skydio programs, promoting this concept—it’s like, come on, you’re liable for this.
Kyle Nordfors: The DFR mannequin has a capability—it gained’t be as widespread as producers assume. Many businesses’ territories aren’t arrange for it to be efficient—counties, sheriff’s workplaces. We’ll attain DFR 2.0 capability fast with businesses that may afford it. The subsequent large cash’s gonna be drone docks in police cruisers—off a canine change, launch throughout a site visitors cease. If a chase ensues, you’ve obtained eyes on—officer hits a button, indicators the station, one other officer flies it, crew useful resource administration. Extra businesses may accommodate that—smaller drones in cruisers, as soon as funding comes down.
[01:21:00]
Luis Figueiredo: Completely. Going again to departments ecstatic about gear—at the moment, laws in Texas proposed banning DJI drones. Identical day—Skydio lobbying—Texas DPS posts photos with X10s, bragging about American-made drones. Sounds deliberate—day it’s proposed, photos pop up. Texas, Connecticut—two weeks in the past, Connecticut had an anti-China drone ban on the governor’s desk. Points in Georgia too—am I lacking any?
Kyle Nordfors: Vic would know the thin on that. There’s Origin, north of you, Lewis—makes boots, jiujitsu gear, bringing manufacturing again to the US. They’re an instance of how US-based corporations ought to behave—be higher, carry out higher than the competitors. Sadly, within the drone business, we’ve obtained mental dishonesty, manipulating, spying, hiding repeaters—a swarm of dishonesty, mendacity to politicians, unproven narratives. On LinkedIn, this clown stated the explanation we don’t have proof of DJI spying is it’s suppressed by an AUVSI board member.
Luis Figueiredo: That’s some deep drone-state shit. Wouldn’t AUVSI put it out if they’d it?
Bobby Ouyang: No, DJI’s lobbying AUVSI too—they’re taking from each side.
Luis Figueiredo: Nah, not Michael Robbins—we all know his ideas on the drone business.
Kyle Nordfors: The unhappy factor with him—his op-eds are verifiably unfaithful, and he’s telling politicians that. Does he even fly drones? By no means seen him fly, by no means spoken knowledgeably on operations—simply politics.
[01:25:00]
Bobby Ouyang: He has a lobbying agency, Intrepid—co-founder—whereas doing AUVSI. Skydio, BRINC principally.
Luis Figueiredo: Has Skydio or BRINC employed his consulting agency? Comply with the cash—there’s a paper path.
Kyle Nordfors: BRINC and Skydio are large AUVSI donors. Robbins labored for the Airline Pilots Affiliation—my union—earlier than AUVSI. He’s been a politician on this business the entire time. If we have been nervous about Chinese language spying, we’d ditch our Chinese language-made computer systems, laptops, cell telephones, Alexas, Googles—however it’s simply drones. TikTok.
READ MORE: The Fact Uncovered: AUVSI’s Actual Stance on DJI Drone Ban
Luis Figueiredo: Even drone detection—DJI stopped promoting Aeroscope within the US years in the past, however present radio-based, distant ID detection programs are based mostly on the Aeroscope framework. Sensors from Aerial Armor—now DDX, a part of Axon—majority of that infrastructure’s DJI AeroScope stuff. Years in the past, they claimed information was going to China—mitigated by AWS servers within the US, and the fearmongering went away. These programs are at airports, vital infrastructure—oil and fuel, refineries—something with distant ID detection. They forgot about it—till Skydio or BRINC goes into drone detection, then it’ll be, “Present programs have dormant DJI spy stuff, they’ll hit the change.”
[01:28:00]
Kyle Nordfors: That highlights the mental dishonesty—with counter-UAS at vital infrastructure and airports, SLTT isn’t empowered to behave, no airspace restrictions above it. Manipulating politicians into pondering banning drones from a rustic solves it’s full BS—it solves nothing. In aviation, we don’t have to reinvent the wheel—Congress must outline vital infrastructure, set restricted areas, make it unlawful to fly over it. Proper now, any Joe Schmo can legally fly any drone, take photos of vital infrastructure, and ship it to whoever.
Luis Figueiredo: DJI obtained shit for geofencing—“Why’s DJI controlling the NAS?” They removed it—“They did it earlier than the inauguration, Tremendous Bowl—what’re they as much as?” Damned in the event that they do, damned in the event that they don’t. I had a two-day counter-UAS class two weeks in the past—level was, you possibly can’t depend on the FAA to implement vital infrastructure. They’re good at making public security leap via hoops for drone packages, however enforcement? Nothing. Municipalities can’t implement airspace, however they’ll implement flying inside vital infrastructure—faculties, police departments, jails. Create metropolis ordinances—not deterring unhealthy actors, however the man flying close to an airport for cool aircraft pics. If it crashes right into a aircraft, present up—“Metropolis ordinance, right here’s your ticket.” In New Jersey, on the Meadowlands—Large Stadium, FIFA World Cup ultimate—state police had points with tailgaters flying drones. They’d say, “You possibly can’t fly,”—that’s it. They obtained the municipality to go an ordinance—now they’ll ticket, “You possibly can’t fly right here,” second or third time, tag the drone for safekeeping.
[01:32:00]
Kyle Nordfors: It’s not your jurisdiction—even secure flying isn’t. Identical drawback nationwide parks have—you possibly can launch exterior and fly in. A regulation’s a very good begin, then take it to the FAA—“We’ve executed this, nonetheless have a problem, want airspace assist”—negotiate restrictions for extra penalties.
Bobby Ouyang: As an airline pilot, FAA regs are written in blood—till one thing goes down, nothing modifications. Not proactive, sadly.
Kyle Nordfors: That’s how regs come about. At Drone Responders, LETA conferences, we speak aviation security tradition—bridge the hole between drone pilots and manned aviation for safer skies. Surprising how little the typical drone pilot—107 or not—is aware of in regards to the Nationwide Airspace System. In North Carolina, working with manned plane, we have to converse the identical language. Drone pilots should inform helicopter pilots altitude in MSL—not AGL, not ASL—or it’s meaningless. Educate ourselves, others, to function safely with dependable gear.
[01:36:00]
Bobby Ouyang: Effectively stated, Kyle. On that word, we’ll wrap it up for this episode with pilot and search-and-rescue extraordinaire, Kyle Nordfors. Thanks for becoming a member of, everybody.
Kyle Nordfors: Thanks, guys. Good seeing you.
Bobby Ouyang: Thanks, Kyle. And we’re not reside.
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